Great Goya pic, isn’t it?
This post follows on from here . . .
To recap – back in December I clicked on a Youtube vid called ‘Meowarchy: demon cats’. It was a Sunday morning so I was in bed with Nog and his laptop, drinking coffee and doing a bit of blogging, etc. And my two cats were also curled up in bed after having had a nice brekky. But I was a bit too slow in shutting the video off when I saw it was upsetting the boys – it really was loud and scary sounding – and there was a serious fight . . .
And not only that but the 11-year ‘best mates’ relationship they’d always enjoyed was somehow totally shattered in that one moment.
The update is that now in April they are slowly coming to accept each other again. But it still ends up with at least one major FIGHT a day, which unfortunately ends up with the smaller cat, Azar, peeing all over the place out of fear (it’s the bigger guy, Sunny, who’s the aggressor). Yet both of them seem equally upset every time it happens. Almost as if they have no idea why they are both acting that way.
[update: 14 June 2007 … peace at last? ]
casa azahar 
Sure, sure. Blame it on the media …
LikeLike
Nah, I blame raincoaster 😉 .
But seriously folks . . .
This article was very helpful, at least to show that this sort of thing isn’t all that unusual – because it seemed fuckin’ weird to me.
Although the initial ‘trigger’ was clearly the video, the subsequent behaviour became something of its own to learn to deal with.
Re-Directed Aggression Towards Other Cats
LikeLike
I’ve just got into bed and found the two boys quite happily curled up here on their own. Meanwhile, a few hours ago all hell had broken loose in here – there was howling & hissing & spitting and later I found huge clumps of black fur on the bed and all over the floor. The floor and both cats were reeking of cat pee (luckily none on the bed!).
But if I hadn’t been here for all that I’d never have guessed there was any animosity between them. Well, the article did stress patience, but I thought it would be a matter of a couple of weeks, not 4 months.
Just to say, that if anyone going through something similar comes across this and is maybe feeling at the end of their patience – it does get better.
LikeLike
It’s hard to say precisely what triggers the fights, since they usually start when we’re not in the room. There may be some underlying jealousy, or maybe Sunny feels that his status is threatened in some way, and interprets Azar’s defensive hissing as a challenge. But a lot of the day they prefer sleeping to fighting.
LikeLike
First time since December we went out and left the boys ‘roaming free’. Okay, we were just gone for about an hour and a half but happily there were no major pee-war fights while we were gone.
Seems like things are finally calming down a bit.
LikeLike
Thank ghod…
I think as the weather gets hotter, they’ll get less inclined to fight — it’s a bitch when it’s hot out, and you’re already wearing a fur coat — not worth it getting worked up!
As they get used to being “on the stroll” around the house, they should gradually get over it. I wonder if it made things worse, that they were seperated which they’d never been, before. Really nothing else you could have done, in any case.
LikeLike
Actually, I spoke (or wrote) too soon last night. After awhile there was that all too familiar smell and I found a whole whack of pee-soaked black fur on the floor. Oh well, at least they missed the soft furnishings again.
We only started keeping them separate after reading that article (a week after the ‘incident’). To be honest, they are acting just the same as they did during that first week, so separating them didn’t seem to change anything – it just postponed them.
Still, gave us a chance to ‘waterproof’ the bed and sofabed and of course we had to keep them separate while we were in Barcelona.
I guess now it’ll just be a matter of keeping their claws clipped and stocking up on mopheads. And for now also keeping them separate when we go out. *sigh*
LikeLike
Found an interesting comment from SB about this on the Welcome page and thought I’d reply to it here.
SB’s situation sounds very similar to mine, minus the initial ‘video trigger’. And there’s no pee.
Thing is, Sunny used to get quite aggressive towards Lua at times. And after she died he started picking on Azar a bit more, though most of the time they would just ‘play fight’ together, which was very cute to watch.
So perhaps this behaviour would have escalated anyhow and just got a ‘nudge’ from them both getting so frightened that day.
The past 2-3 days had actually been quite good – no fights at all and the boys were fine about sleeping together on the bed. Also, Azar was coming into the livingroom more often during the day. But suddenly yesterday afternoon, while Azar was quietly asleep on the sofa, Sunny pounced and the two of them ended up having a massive fight – luckily on the floor as they both got pretty soaked.
So that one was totally unprovoked. Sometimes Azar’s hissy-spitty response to Sunny coming into a room might set him off, which is kind of understandable (on both sides). But yesterday Azar was just sleeping.
LikeLike
Curious. I was testing out the volume on my new laptop because earlier on in the livingroom it seemed very quiet, but I’d also had the balcony doors open and there were quite a few people outside having tapas and talking.
Anyhow, I decided to try it out in the bedroom later on and clicked on one of the musical videos I have over here and as soon as it came on Azar (who had been curled up next to my head) sat bolt upright and started looking upset. It’s as if since ‘the incident’ he relates any sound coming out of the laptop (when we’re in bed with it) to herald something bad happening to him. What a long memory that guy has – Sunny doesn’t seem to notice.
LikeLike
As I mentioned previously, Azar has started coming into the livingroom on his own a lot more recently, but since the last sofa attack he’s decided that sitting under the table amongst the chair legs is somehow ‘safer’.
So we decided to make it a bit more comfy for him and he seems to like it there very much indeed. And this way he doesn’t spend all day ‘hiding out’ in the bedroom. 🙂
Azar’s safe place
LikeLike
That looks like quite a nifty little spot! Under the action, so to speak, and able to participate.
Good idea! 🙂
LikeLike
Azar is a very clever cat. He’s learned that the ‘best’ place to get attacked is under the bed against the wall as he is then protected from back and also Sunny can’t get on top of him. Likewise the chair legs hinder his attacker and give Azar enough wiggle room to keep out of the way until the Alpha Cat yells at Sunny to knock it off.
All of which is good news for the soft furnishings. 🙂
I’ve given up on the ‘don’t interfere,let them sort it out between themselves’ thing simply because Sunny is so much bigger and stronger(and without a physical handicap). The other day when Sunny attacked Azar on the sofa they ended up on the floor next to it before the pee started flying (whew!) but Azar was less protected there and Sunny was all over him.
The thing is, the longer a fight goes on with Sunny ‘winning’ the more vicious he gets, like he’s going into some kind of basic instinct killer mode. On the other hand, if I yell ‘Sunny! Knock it off!’ as soon as he attacks he usually freezes, looks confused for a bit, and then wanders off sheepishly. And usually Azar doesn’t pee if the fight is nipped in the bud.
And so, things are slowly getting better but I don’t know if I’ll ever feel comfortable leaving them on their own again when Nog and I aren’t at home.
LikeLike
Things are continuing much the same. Except poor Azar’s beautiful tall ears are now all scratched and scarred. And this after me clipping Sunny’s front claws! Sometimes I think bluntish claws can actually do more damage than razor sharp ones, in terms of how wide the the scratch damage ends up being.
Seems that the bottom line these days is that Azar is truly totally terrified of Sunny now. And I don’t know how to make that better.
Which means Azar will come into the livingroom looking for some company, or a snack, and as soon as he sees Sunny he goes hisssssssss! and runs out of the room, which is a bit like waving a red flag at your tormenter, as Sunny’s immediate reaction is to chase and hunt down his opponent. Well, except when I yell very loudly – ‘Sunny! Knock it off!’
It’s so doggy of Sunny to respond to my angry voice like that. And then when I snap my fingers at him – boy, does he ever know he’s doing something he shouldn’t. He stops dead in his tracks.
Nog is quite amazed at how Sunny immediately responds to my snapping fingers, but it’s how I got him to stop doing annoying kitten stuff when he was very young. I’ve never hit him as I don’t think that’s a good training technique. But ‘angry voice’ and snapping fingers really works with him.
I’ve actually never had any cause to use this technique on Azar. Except for when he goes to town scratching at the bedsheets – he gets a stern word, which he then totally ignores. He’s a real cat, that one.
But the real terror that Azar feels is something I want and need to work on. Just last night Sunny got all cosy at the foot of the bed and eventually Azar came up to cuddle up next to my head. Then Sunny stood up with that demented look in his eye and Azar totally panicked. What I did was boot Sunny off the bed with my foot and then I tried cuddling Azar, but no way. His whole demeanor was like he was seriously having a panic attack. So he eventually ran under the bed, then Sunny chased him there, then I had to yell at Sunny and snap my fingers … then Sunny got all ‘needy’, and came back up on the bed for a cuddle while Azar stayed huddled under the bed. Gaaaaaa!
Gee, lucky for them I’m an insomniac. So Sunny gets to sleep with me for half the night, then about 3 or 4am I toss him into the livingroom and let Azar spend the rest of the night curled up next to my head and purring like mad.
But Azar is starting to look quite seriously depressed – there’s no other word for it. He is usually so perky and chirpy and actually bounces when he scampers around the flat. But lately he is just looking so sad! And barely moves around at all. Meanwhile, Sunny just looks quite pleased with himself.
What to do???
LikeLike
*sigh* Not much change to report.
Except that since I now interrupt the cat fights as soon as I hear Azar screaming there haven’t been any pee incidents for the past couple of weeks or so. I reckon Azar has figured out that if he makes enough noise when Sunny makes his first move then I’ll come to his rescue.
I did figure out what the peeing was all about. Once I caught the two of them just as Sunny was about to pounce and Azar was ‘in position’ with his back against the wall and his hind legs spread open – turns out his big ‘defense weapon’ was to pee on Sunny!
Anyhow, it seems they both rather appreciate me stepping in. Sunny just sheepishly wanders away from the ‘attack site’ looking somewhat relieved and Azar goes all floppy. But sheesh already.
Sleeping arrangements remain a problem. I tried leaving them ‘roaming free’ when we go to bed, but this means Sunny takes up his ‘superior position’ on the bed and poor Azar is left to spend the night under the bed (though I have put a comfy rug under there for him). And even then Sunny will sometimes get antsy during the night and decide to attack.
So now the deal is that on weeknights (when both Nog and I have to get up early the next day and don’t want to be disturbed by cat fights) we put Sunny in the livingroom for the night and Azar very happily sleeps on top of my head. It’s also his only time to get serious cuddles anymore as he either hides out in the bedroom or sits on his cushion under the livingroom table during the day.
But weekends we still let them roam free at night, even though this sometimes means being woken up two or three times by hissing and spitting and screaming.
In any case, we have found some solutions that work. And we live in hope that one day Azar will stop feeling so afraid and that Sunny will stop being so bloody aggressive.
I think letting them roam free all day helps a bit because they keep ‘testing the waters’ with each other, both of them now maybe feeling a bit more secure knowing that the Alpha Cat will step in when they get in over their heads.
Curiously, the other night when we went out for tapas and met that lovely couple from Texas, we got home to discover that we’d forgotten to close the livingroom door. But there was no whiff of pee nor any clumps of Azar fur lying about, so it seems they were able to get along by themselves for a couple of hours without supervision.
*fingers crossed*
LikeLike
I hope that holds, az. It makes me sad that they can’t go back to how they used to be.
Every time you talk about this, I’m thankful my beasts are fairly compatible. They’ve been having some more serious tussles, but nothing like you’re going through… (hugs)
LikeLike
Just to say that the boys are now sleeping together in the bedroom – and not just on weekends.
Ok, there have been a couple of ‘wee hour’ spats, but not enough to go back to separating them.
They tend to choose their ‘territory’ soon after we go to bed – as opposite from each other as possible. Azar on my head (left hand upper corner) and Sunny next to Nog’s feet (lower right hand corner).
Well, it’s progress of a sort …
LikeLike
Sounds like they’ve settled in some more. Maybe in a year there won’t be even wee spats. Hopefully not the liquid wee ones, anyway!
LikeLike
~ peace at last ~
LikeLike
Pingback: role reversal « casa az