03 Wednesday Jan 2007
Posted in animals & pets, life stuff
I first brought up this subject over here .
I just thought that instead of hogging the animal crackers thread I would start a new one for this particular subject as it is going on a lot longer than I thought it would. And I think I’ve worked out how to copy the relevant comments over here and delete them from over there.
Anyhow, the discussion about the incident started here…
Wow, Az, I’ve never heard of this happening but I think you’re right that they thought the yowling was from each other.
Sounds like you’re doing the right thing and I would expect that it will continue to improve. They both have been neutered, right?
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Hi Big Red – great to see you here! I’ve just posted something to you over on the Lua Thread.
Nope, only Azar has been neutered – Sunny still has his cojones.
Meanwhile, after a couple of days of thinking progress was being made, this evening Sunny caught Azar hanging out in the hallway, chased him under the bed and then all hell broke loose … as well as Azar losing control of his bladder again. 🙄
The fighting is bad enough but it would be much easier to deal with if each time it wasn’t accompanied by cat pee all over the place (including all over the cats). I’ve just finished swabbing them both down with a warm damp washcloth…
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Oh dear, I was hoping this would be over by now. I wonder if some of the problem, if it is related to dominence, might have to do with one cat still having all his bits and the other not (assuming that maybe it’s triggering Azar peeing to assert himself). Sigh. No way to know, I think.
BTW, nice to see you again, Big Red.
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Too bad you didn’t videotape it and send it in to America’s Funniest Home Videos. You could have won $100 000.
Animals are funny, aren’t they? Who knows why they do what they do.
–L
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Seriouly, if I’d know it would have had this effect, I’d never have posted the damn video. Maybe I can find vid of cats purring to make up for it? Sorry!
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How did I miss all this? I am so sorry to hear that you have been having such a bad time with your boys. I hope that they will settle down soon.
I have noticed that whenever we have a new stray in the neighborhood, my two boys have to determine who is the head cat again. Mostly it involves posturing and a once in a while Smokey will smack Mike one, but it never has devolved into the kind of out and out battles you are describing.
I’ll be sending those two confused guys some healing energy.
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How awful for all of you, I really hope the boys get settled back into their old friendship again soon.
When they fight, are they actually drawing blood or is it mostly noise and territorial peeing?
I’m jolly glad I have house rabbits – their way of establishing dominace is to mount and ‘fake shag’ each other, whether they’re male or female!
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Thanks for the purring kitten ‘antidote’ vid, raincoaster. 🙂
I really blame myself for not turning the damn thing off even 5 seconds sooner. Ah well, live and learn!
No, they’re not drawing blood, truce. And the peeing is done out of fright – it’s not territorial (Azar has a history of peeing when he’s afraid). It’s just so sad because they used to play fight together almost every day, wrestling and rolling around on the floor, chasing each other from room to room. And then they’d fall asleep together – best mates.
To be honest, I’d be a lot more worried if Nog hadn’t found that article (up in the previous post 18) as it says that it could take a lot of time and patience to get back to the way things were before.
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Yes, it sounds like one of those situations where time will heal all, eventually, which is encouraging even if it will be very trying on your patience.
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Some photos here showing that they can be quite peaceful together – but only under supervision with me acting as peacekeeper.
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Poor babies. Don’t you wonder sometimes what is going on under those pointy ears? When I brought Mike into the house, he was very small, and Smokey did not like him, but it was easy to keep him in line. Then, when Mike got to be about two years old, he discovered that he was actually bigger than Smokey, and there was a period of testiness and fighting (fortunately sans pee!) that lasted about a year.
Now what is interesting is that Mike outweighs Smokey by about 4 pounds, and is taller and longer. But Smokey is still the dominant cat. About a year ago, Mike started being not so deferential to Smokey, and I imagine we would have gone through another testing period, which would probably have resulted in Smokey being deposed as the head cat.
But something wonderful happened! We got a dog. United in disgust against their common enemy, they became best friends and now even sleep together on the bed. (I am not suggesting that you go out and get a dog)
They share the duty of keeping the stray cats off the place, they even seem to have a duty rotation, where one is in the house resting and the other on patrol. At intervals, we will have “The Changing of the Cats” as one of them enters the house while the other leaves.
I am sure that your situation will resolve itself eventually. Looks like it is on its way towards detente.
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That’s so funny, hmh – get a dog! 🙂
It does make some sense though. If this had happened while Lua (Sunny’s mother, fabulous bitch-on-wheels cat from hell) was still alive, none of this would have come about. I think the boys would have – as usual – picked on her (as Lua was always the common ‘enemy’ for both of them) and she would have made very short work of them – nobody fucked with ‘la Lua’ – then the boys would have gone back to their usual routine.
But you see, now they have nobody else to blame for the weirdness they are feeling. So they blame each other. But neither is willing to budge an inch, so they remain at once very frightened and angry towards each other, not even knowing why.
I sat next to Azar on the sofa today with Sunny on my lap. As soon as they made eye contact Azar’s ears went totally flat, he hissed and started with deep-in-the-throat growling … which made Sunny slowly slink backwards out of my hold on him until he was on ‘his’ side of the sofa again. Clearly showing that Sunny is terrified of Azar? Nope. Cos other times Sunny goes totally ballistic when he catches Azar unawares, making Azar pee in fright … gaaaaaaaaaa!
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The other thing is that Sunny has about two kilos over Azar (Sunny is huge, almost no-necked big-time wrestler huge, though in many ways he is such a big wimp … and he has two working front legs. Azar has his little ‘hockey-stick’ crippled front leg that is basically useless (except for tossing sand out of the cat box and doing impressions of Rodin’s thinker).
Anyhow, we are still doing what we can … it will be interesting to see what we come home to after four days in Barcelona (and yes, they will be separated during that time).
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How stressful!
You do know not to use anything with ammonia to clean up cat pee, right? Although, sounds like you’ve got stress/fear peeing rather than marking, but use an ammonia-free bleach, or I use water and vinegar.
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I’ve mostly been using Mr Clean mixed with very hot water and then rinsing off the area with more hot water … yes, anything ammonia-based is a bad idea. Hadn’t thought about water and vinegar – might use that next time as it sounds like quite a good idea.
It’s just so bizarre that they have turned into such enemies … they used to be the best mates ever. And when I first brought Azar home (he was just 5 months old) it was Sunny who befriended him and made him feel safe and at home. Gaaaaa – how can one stupid moment fuck up 11 years of friendship???
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Now, I love that last question. Let me tell you a story. . .Oh maybe not. It is just too depressing. They “will” get over it.
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Maybe what you should do is swap cat beds or something, so that they will end up sleeping surrounded by the smell of the other cat. It’ll start to associate happy naptime with the other cat and might calm them down over time. I used to train animals for a living and this is the kind of thing that’s so crazy it just might work.
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So this is, what, the 5th week of the pee wars?
Sigh. I’m very saddened by all this. I’m starting to get nervous about the terrible twosome, what if they start acting up?
I’ve been pretty lucky so far; when I had three females, there was a battlesome period, but I found out it was triggered by the fact that the dominant one of the three of them, Gremlin, had diabetes, and it made her very irritable.
Once I started treating her with her insulin (weird — we were both using the same kind!), she calmed down and the fights stopped.
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Yeah, we followed the advice in the article, raincoaster, which also suggested that we keep them separated for a few days, then swap rooms (still keeping them separated) so they could get used to each other’s smell.
Thing is, they are actually able to be in the same room now, but only if I’m here to keep an eye on them. Because they can seem perfectly peaceful and at ease, then one cat makes a ‘wrong move’ and suddenly it’s claws and spitting and pee all over the place.
So these days we keep them in the livingroom when I’m at home during the day (if I go out I put one in the bedroom) and then they alternate so that they can sleep in bed with us, at least every other night. That’s the really hard part because they both adore sleeping with us and sometimes the one who’s got the livingroom shift will cry after I’ve tucked him in for the night. 😦
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So we’re off to Barcelona for four days – starting tomorrow (Friday). It’ll be interesting to see how the boys are when we get back. Sunny will be kept in the living room and Azar will have the bedroom/bathroom area (the studio room will be closed off).
A friend of mine will be coming over on Saturday and Sunday, just to make sure they are okay, have enough water and food, scoop out the litter boxes and probably give Sunny a cuddle (Azar won’t let anyone touch him except me and Nog). And we’ll be home again on Monday night.
I’m curious to see if four whole days totally alone will make them more open to each other’s company.
Basically they always want to be where the Alpha Cat (me) is. For example, I’m in the livingroom now so they are both curled up on the sofa. But they still need constant supervision as just awhile ago I caught Sunny sneaking up on a sleeping Azar.
Likewise at night they both want to be in bed with me, but as I don’t want to wake up with two cats fighting on my head (not to mention having my head peed on!) I’m still separating them at night.
My vet Maria finally came back from holidays and called me. She said I may have to just toss the two of them into a room, close the door, and let them battle it out between themselves.
Which is possibly a reasonable suggestion except that: 1) the room would end up covered in cat pee and 2) Azar is not only much smaller than Sunny but also has the useless front leg, so he can’t defend himself properly. I would worry about Sunny doing serious damage to Azar.
So we shall see … I’m hoping that being alone for four days will make them both want to be with ME so much that they will forget their differences. Every other time they’ve been left on their own (usually just for a weekend) they have had each other’s company. So this will be their first experience of being totally alone.
Wish us all luck!
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Update …
No noticable difference after the Barcelona trip. After being totally alone for four days they weren’t any happier to see each other again. Though Sunny was really happy to see us! He came running as soon as he heard my voice. Meanwhile, Azar sulked under the bed for about an hour after we got home, trying to make us feel bad for having abandonated him. He’s such a drama cat, that one.
Anyhoodle, things continue much as before. Though I make sure they are both in the livingroom when we are at home, and sometimes let them both in the bedroom if we are watching a film in bed. They still need to be separated when we go out and during the night (trading off bed privileges on an every-other-night basis).
It’s curious to see them being curious about each other, but still also afraid. And how differently that fear expresses itself. With Sunny he gets aggressive and pounces – but he is clearly feeling very afraid of Azar. Azar reacts to Sunny totally on the defensive, crunching up very small with ears back and hissing …
Once a day I bring Sunny over to where Azar is curled up on the sofa, holding him on my lap while I let the two of them check each other out at close range. Sometimes Azar pretends to be asleep, other times he hisses. In either case Sunny’s response is to get really nervous and kind of backs out of my gentle hold on him.
Yesterday when we weren’t looking, Sunny snuck up on Azar (sleeping on the sofa) and pounced … immediate screaming and hissing from Azar, but thankfully no peeing! In fact, after that episode Sunny looked much more upset than Azar. So while I cuddled Azar on the sofa, Nog picked up Sunny and put him on his favourite stool by the radiator and also gave him a cuddle. The article was very clear that the ‘aggressor’ should not be punished in this type of situation, and now that I’m seeing how genuinely upset Sunny gets it makes a lot of sense.
Night before last I tried having them both in bed during the night. And while the night passed without any ‘pee wars’ I found I would wake up everytime Azar left his ‘safe place’ under the duvet next to me and a couple of times I had to stop Sunny from attacking Azar when he went for a drink of water or to use the litter box, so I hardly got any sleep at all.
They are both curled up now on opposite ends of the sofa. Used to be they would curl up together for the warmth. *sigh*
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A bit of photo evidence that they are not always enemies. Actually, this was my second try at getting them to sit side-by-side on the sofa this evening. The first effort started off okay until Sunny took a chunk out of Azar´s leg and all hell broke loose.
This time around the heat from the electric fire seems to be having a nice calming effect…
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They still seem to be very wary of each other, and although Sunny doesn’t seem to have the immediate intention of attacking when he approaches Azar, he does seem to be on a bit of a hair trigger. Still can’t leave them alone together.
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Yeah, another serious pee war this morning. I thought Sunny was just going up to Azar on the sofa to have a sniff and maybe settle down next to him (like they did last night) but suddenly they were both on the floor covered in pee and screaming their heads off. 😕
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Update…
Okay, we’ve got as far as getting them to sleep on the same sofa together without killing each other, but Nog puts this down mostly to the ‘heat drugging’ factor of them being directly in front of the heater … and also the ‘being asleep’ factor (which helps).
So yesterday and today I tried feeding them together, knowing that when Sunny is EATING he ain’t concerned about nuthin else. I placed their food dishes about 8 inches apart, filled them up and let them go for it. And wow, they were fine. Until the food was gone, then Azar scampered over to the sofa again (he always hogs the blanky).
Meanwhile, we’re still doing ‘tag team bed cats’ – one night Sunny gets to sleep with us, the next it’s Azar, and so on.
Who’da thunk this would take so long? I’m not so concerned about that, just sometimes worried that they might not ever get back to being best mates again.
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Oh, surely, that won’t happen! After my cat Gremlin got treated for her diabetes, she calmed down immediately, and while it did take the other two a couple of months to trust her again, finally they did. And they had knock-down-drag-out battles in the corner of the living room!
I wonder if turkey works on cats like it does on humans? Many a family Thanksgiving day has been saved by the curative powers of L-tryptophan-induced comas… 😉
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This is crazy. It’s been over two months and still no change. In fact, the boys seem to have got quite used to having their own ‘space’. 😕
They seem okay together if I am in the room with them and they are both kind of sleepy – being at opposite ends of the sofa doesn’t seem to bother them. But then yesterday Sunny sneaked out of the livingroom and just in time I found him on the bed in ‘attack position’ and Azar was all crunched up against the pillows with his ears flat … gaaaaa! If I hadn’t caught them I would have been washing the bedcover and duvet – again!
It’s been suggested by a few people that I just let ‘nature take its course’ and leave them to sort it out by themselves. And I’d be inclined to do this if it wasn’t for two things.
First – the peeing issue. I mean, I’ve been lucky so far that no pee incidents have ended up with the soaking of our mattress – though constantly washing bedcovers is bad enough. But yeah, I could toss them both into the spare room (that has no soft furnishings) and let them work out their differences, except …
Second – I’m honestly quite worried that Sunny could seriously hurt Azar. Not only is he much bigger and a kilo or more heavier, but Azar only has one functioning front leg and wouldn’t be able to protect himself properly. So I worry he might get an eye taken out or and ear ripped … not a risk I feel willing to take.
I mean, Sunny used to quite viciously attack Lua on occasion, but she could defend herself very well and after a short spat Sunny would leave her alone again.
It seems as if it’s the Alpha Cat position that has been threatened. Before when Sunny and Azar used to ‘play fight’, they would wrestle around for awhile, but then Azar would always give in – no pasa nada. But ever since the incident Azar has become a lot more ‘defensive’ in his ways – like hissing and growling everytime Sunny comes near. Which pushes Sunny’s ATTACK button, it would seem.
Unfortunately, Azar has also sussed that I am going to ‘come to his rescue’ all the time now and I reckon he is playing this for all it’s worth (he is such a ham actor that one!). But the reason I come to his rescue is because Sunny’s attacks are no longer ‘play fighting’ – he seriously means business – and they are seriously not evenly matched.
So, I really don’t know what else to do. What’s so weird is that these two were such best mates before all this happened. They played and slept together. Heck, Azar could even nudge Sunny away from his food dish and Sunny would always let him get away with it (and usually nothing comes between Sunny and his bikkys!).
Maybe I should have had Sunny castrated years ago – think it’s too late now?
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On the castration front, I wouldn’t know but I wouldn’t have thought it could hurt (if you know what I mean 😉 ).
Otherwise how about a more left field idea?
When we have had kittens in the house, the way we used to “control” or discipline them was with a water pistol. If the boys aren’t too far gone, could it be worth setting them up to fight in the spare room, when you are ready for it – and giving them a dousing if/when they start fighting?
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Thing is, I can stop them from fighting easy-peasy when I’m in the same room. I simply snap my fingers and say NO in an angry-sounding voice and Sunny backs off sheepishly.
When I catch them actually fighting (and the pee has hit the whatever) I just unceremoniously pick up whatever cat is nearest … do you think spraying them with water at this point would be better?
I dunno. Because I know that they both actually know what they’re doing is not acceptable to the REAL Alpha Cat (me!). Trust me, if I snap my fingers when Sunny isn’t doing anything naughty he doesn’t respond to it at all …
Azar is a much more complicated being to deal with. He’s extremely clever and the first cat I’ve met that actually has a sense of humour. One of his tricks is to sit all sad-looking beside his food dish until Nog gets up to feed him – then he takes Nog’s place on his chair and starts grooming (I think the cat equivalent of thumbing one’s nose).
I really don’t think it’s a discipline problem, per se. It seems more a problem between the two of them, having to re-configurate their relationship. Sunny used to seem quite secure as the Alpha dominant, enough to let Azar get away with stuff like pushing him away from the food dish … but it seems he can’t bear it when Azar gets all hissy/growly … almost like Azar’s fear is contageous.
This weekend I’ll try having them both share the bed with us again. It’s worked sometimes in the recent past, but usually ends up with me barely sleeping so it’s not a good thing to do mid-week when I have to get up at 7am.
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I’m sure you’re right – and you know them best. I was just thinking that the shock value might help – since it was a shock that kicked thsi behaviour off.
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Well, curiously … about an hour ago the two of them both escaped from the livingroom and hid under the bed. But as no fight erupted immediately we decided to leave them there while we had lunch and just now I checked them out again. They were in exactly the same position but as soon as Sunny saw me he looked at me like ‘eep! help get me outta here, mom!’ and so I called him and he slowly slinked over to me. Meanwhile, Azar was lounging against the wall and not looking all that bothered …
Weird. It’s like the ‘balance of power’ was totally flipped after that one shock incident. Used to be that Azar could basically get away with murder as long as he acted like the submissive one. But since he went all hyper-defensive (not without cause) it’s really been fucking Sunny up (also understandable) – leaving Sunny both terrified and seriously aggressive at the same time.
Anyhow, I called Sunny into the livingroom and then after awhile he decided to go back into the bedroom. I saw him doing his weirdo scared/aggressive stalking thing and just said in a firm voice “Sunny, no!” and he went all limp again and now has jumped on top of the bed and is curled up on the pillows.
It’s curious because this is the first time they’ve spent more than a few minutes alone without fighting – that 45 minutes under the bed seemed like a good sign to me. And now Sunny has taken up ‘dominant’ residence on the bed while Azar is still hanging out underneath it.
The very best case scenario would be that Azar will eventually leap onto the bed and immediately go into a passive/submissive posture so that Sunny doesn’t feel threatened – that could really break the spell, so to speak.
Fingers crossed!
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Right – enough is enough. Also, a cunning plan occurred to me.
Since both boys usually end up spending the late morning and afternoon/evening together with us in the livingroom (when we are home to keep an eye on them) I decided to ‘broaden their horizons’ a bit today.
So I opened up the livingroom door (and closed the bedroom door to protect the mattress) and then totally ignored them. Which meant they could sneak out of the livingroom and get up to mischief … which they did. Not too long ago the sound of a serious cat battle came from the bathroom and then the two of them raced into the livingroom totally stinking of cat piss.
And I didn’t raise one finger to help them. Though Nog, bless him, cleaned up the cat pee on the bathroom floor and – after the boys had settled down – I gave them both a rubdown with a hot wet washcloth (man, did they reek!).
And now they are both fast asleep on the sofa together (though on different ends of it).
Interesting. And I think this is a good next step to be taking with them. I mean, it didn’t take them long to start fighting once they got out of the livingroom and out from ‘under observation’. But although there were a few clumps of Azar fur lying about the place, no serious damage was done. I still wouldn’t leave them at home alone, but I think letting them sort things out in a slightly larger area, excluding the bedroom, is quite a good idea.
Let’s hope this works because I really want to see them both like this again.
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That does sound encouraging – and should let them sort out their “natural order of things”.
As you say, just as long as no serious harm is done . . .
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Meanwhile, back at Casa Rocket…
He’s been picking more fights, with more sqeaking — he pins Missy down, and nips at her, then she starts sqealing, then I yell, she runs off with him in hot pursuit. Sigh. I swear I didn’t watch that damn video, either.
It does sound like the boyz are slowly working it out, az. Just keep ’em off the duvet!
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Let’s make that “squeaking,” shall we?
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Clearly, it’s stupid o’clock again. Squealing would be an improvement, as well. 😉
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SC, the thing you describe between Rocket and Missy is the same sort of occasional aggressive behaviour Sunny used to show towards Lua and Azar. But these were very occasional moments, not every time they were in the room together.
The other difference is that Lua could properly defend herself (and how!) and Azar has his little handicap.
Anyhoodle, the other day the two boys ended up having two massive pee-fights. It was awful!
There were huge clumps of ripped-out Azar fur all over the place and the poor thing was left full of scratches and trembling like a leaf. Also, for awhile it seemed like he had dislocated his shoulder (the one on the hockey-stick leg).
At the time, after the second such fight the same day, I said to Nog that we might have to look for someone to take Sunny in. Except, although it makes practical sense, it would totally break my heart.
But it’s so exhausting, having to keep these two separate all the time and lock one of them in the livingroom every night … just the constant concern. Like now. They are both asleep on the sofa (after me spending time getting them settled) but I wouldn’t feel free to leave the room to make lunch if Nog weren’t in here to watch them – I’d have to move one of them into the bedroom. Gaaa!
It’s totally killing me, especially as this used to be them!
😦
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Two massive pee fights this week, which actually left Sunny’s ears and forehead in a bit of a state. And here I was thinking Azar couldn’t defend himself – mind you, Sunny is so duh! that he probably leads with his face.
Meanwhile, it was Sunny’s turn for the bed last night (while Azar slept in the living room) and imagine my shock & disgust when I woke up to discover that Sunny had peed in bed! Luckily we are still using the duvet or the mattress would have been totally soaked.
So, as Nog and I had planned to buy a waterproof mattress protector for our new sofa bed, we decided to also get one for the bedroom bed (the one we have at the moment isn’t waterproof). But, as they are both non-standard sizes, we’ll have to wait a week for them – so fingers crossed that there are no pee incidents between now and then.
Meanwhile, I spoke to Maria the vet this morning and she has suggested a hormone treatment for Sunny which she says could help with his aggressive behaviour … she’s going to get back to me next week with prices as she says this stuff is quite expensive so she wants to shop around a bit to find us a good price option.
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az, please don’t shoot me for suggesting this, but have you talked to Maria about getting Sunny fixed? It would make him less agressive (or if it’s Azar that’s “au naturel”, that might be what sets Sunny off). That video did something to both of them, and it doesn’t look like it’s going away.
Maybe Maria could recommend a good kitty trank?
(only semi-joking…) 😕
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I actually thought about tranquing them for a few days, just enough so that they might be able to break the vicious cycle behaviour pattern they have gotten into. But then Maria suggested this hormone treatment.
I did ask her if she thought the problem might be Sunny’s au naturel condition making him more aggressive, but she said at his age (going on 14) it wouldn’t make sense to have him castrated. Not only are operations more dangerous at his age but it’s doubtful that his testosterone level is that high anymore. I’m not sure what hormones are involved in this treatment but Maria said it could help calm him down.
Meanwhile, Sunny peed on the duvet again last night 😡 . I have no idea why he’s started doing this but he is now banished to the living room until those waterproof covers come in.
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Soooo… go figure. The cats have been mostly separated all week and I think Sunny has been getting a bit of ‘cabin fever’ from being always locked up in the living room (don’t want him peeing on the bed). But this morning I shut Azar in the bedroom to give Sunny the run of the place for awhile and he just sat in the livingroom doorway looking confused. *sigh*
Meanwhile, this weird thing just happened. A few hours ago I’d brought Azar into the livingroom, just to have them together again for awhile – they seemed much more nervous together than they’ve been lately. And just now I found Sunny all crouched down, ears flat back and stalking Azar (who is happily curled up on a cushion under the dining tablbe). BUT THEN … I snapped my fingers at Sunny a couple of times and opened the balcony doors and it was like breaking a spell. He kind of shook his head and went ‘oh hey, balcony!’ and totally relaxed and forgot all about Azar.
So it’s like something that takes them over. A behaviour that was triggered by hearing the fighting cats on that video. And something they can’t seem to stop.
Still haven’t heard back from Maria.
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Y’know, maybe the fighting was triggered by the video, but the continued behaviours could be due to some age-related brain damage? HUMANS get alzheimer’s…and they’ve both been hitting each other pretty hard, I’m guessing.
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Well, I’m planning on taking Sunny in for a complete checkup on Friday. That way we can rule out any sort of physical problem and maybe start on the hormone treatment.
*fingers crossed*
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Update… just back from a two-hour trek to the vet’s. One of the few times I wished I had a car.
Anyhow, Sunny is generally healthy but is now officially up to 6.5 kilos so Maria says he has to be put on a diet. Fine. But at least we ruled out any physical ailment that might be causing him discomfort and making him lash out.
Re: the aggressive behaviour. Maria agreed that the video probably triggered the sudden change, but she also said this might have started gradually happening in any case. Grumpy Old Cat syndrome.
She actually thought my idea to put him on some mild tranqs for a few days was a good one – rather than start him on a prolonged hormone treatment or kitty prozac (yes, there is such a thing). But first she had to do a blood test to make sure he could deal with the drugs. Turns out he’s on the high end of normal with uric acid and glucose, so along with the tranqs he’ll be taking a natural supplement for renal function.
Meanwhile, got the waterproof mattress protectors yesterday and so will put them on the sofa bed and bed-bed this weekend and then probably let the two boys mingle a bit more … by then the tranqs should have had a chance to take effect.
Luckily Sunny is super-easy to give pills to. He’ll gobble up anything crushed into catfood paté or tinned sardines.
Honestly, he’s such a dog. Unlike Azar (aka Tasmanian Devil) Sunny will let me do anything to him, like clean his ears, but he always expects a treat for good behaviour afterwards. Likewise when we go to the vet’s. He squawks all the way there and back, but lets Maria do anything at all – today he didn’t even make a fuss about the blood sample – but he totally DEMANDS PAYMENT when it’s all over. Little did he suspect that today’s paté treat was spiked…
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Waste of time … poor Sunny.
Well okay, it seems he does actually need the renal system supplement (which might end up being a lifelong thang) but giving him tranqs didn’t help end the fighting.
Today was his fifth day on the tranqs and it seemed to affect him more today than on other days (even though the dose was the same – half a pill). But this afternoon he suddenly got all wobbly on his legs and was having trouble walking and squawking … and yet two minutes later he threw himself at Azar who was hiding under the table. So forget the tranqs.
Now that we have the soft furnishings pee-protected I think I’m just going to stop separating them all the time and live with the extra laundry and mopping up until they sort things out between themselves.
I just hope neither of them loses an eye or otherwise gets seriously injured.
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Clipped the boys’ claws yesterday morning to minimize possible damage to eyes, ears and face … then opened the livingroom door after lunch.
Azar was asleep on the bed and Sunny eventually made his way in there – it took all my effort not to interfere and stay in the livingroom! Half an hour later I poked my head around the corner and saw both of them lying on the bed fast asleep. Awwww…
Unfortunately, I had to go out to a class shortly after that, so I brought Sunny back into the livingroom and tried again late this morning after I got back from the gym.
Once again they spent a couple of hours on the bed together without incident, and they are now moving around a bit … Azar just got up to have a snack and Sunny has come back into the livingroom (it’s such a pleasure not to have to always close the damned door!).
So I guess now we wait and see. Dare I say it looks hopeful?
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*cross fingers*
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Probably spoke too soon. Big-time pee fight just happened in the bedroom. Again, I forced myself not to interfere. And a few minutes after all the fuss had died down Sunny came sauntering into the livingroom (the victor?) reeking of pee, so I stuck him on the balcony while he cleaned himself off.
But just now I went to get the washcloth to sponge him off and found him hiding in the IKEA under-the-sofabed drawer (ick!) and he’s now run back under the bed – where Azar is hiding out.
Who knows what will happen next!
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Finally managed to grab both of them and give them a sponge bath so they didn’t reek of cat pee.
And Nog mopped under the bed three times to get rid of the actual pee there.
And now Azar is curled up on the sofa … Sunny remains in hiding.
But for the moment they are both free to come and go as they please as I’m going to keep the livingroom door open at least until bedtime, and maybe even all night.
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Aw, az, I’m so sorry…you’ve been through the wringer on this. All the laundry, and the mopping. I’m so glad my haven’t any issues…yet.
(blast this wordpress! it keeps freezing and slowing down on me–i suppose i’m lucky it hasn’t crashed yet! 😦 )
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Have you tried writing to Feedback? If it’s a WordPress problem they are usually very good at fixing things quickly. That’s been happening to me at times as well, but it only happens on the desktop so I reckoned it was a problem with my computer. Maybe not.
Meanwhile, other than being woken up at 6am with Azar hissing and spitting on my head the night passed without incident. Went to bed with Azar on my pillow. Nog placed Sunny at the foot of the bed on his side, so the boys were at opposite diagonal ends. Woke up for awhile at 3 o’clock to find I was a cat sandwich – they had me totally pinned down under the duvet, one on each side of me. Cute.
I don’t think it was actually a fight at 6am. Nog said he got up briefly around 5 and saw Sunny in the bathroom, so maybe when he came back to bed he jumped up on ‘Azar’s side’ and startled him (Sunny, not Nog 😉 ).
Anyhow, not sure about leaving them to roam free while I’m at yoga. Even though Nog will be here I’m not sure how he’d handle an emergency situation (should one arise).
Gosh, I’m such a worry wart . . .
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Weird. It’s almost as if da boyz have become ‘institutionalised’. The livingroom door has been open since I got back from yoga and neither cat has shown any interest in ‘crossing the border’. Azar is happily curled up on the bed and Sunny here in the livingroom.
I’m actually wondering if it’s the azahar that’s made a difference, as it is a kind of natural tranquiliser and lately the whole apartment is filled with a very light fragrance of orange blossom.
Well, you never know.
Okay, they are still fighting. But the fights seem less vicious than before and they have stopped going totally on RED ALERT whenever they see each other. Now if only Azar would stop peeing every time Sunny jumps on him …
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The last two nights have passed without incident, with both cats sleeping in our bed.
There have been a few fights since the last pee war on Friday night, but only one (just awhile ago) that turned out wet and stinky. And we were super lucky! The fight had started on the bed – judging by the huge clumps of black fur on the pillow – but it seems Azar flew off and landed in front of the balcony doors before pissing all over the place.
It’s so hard to just STAY PUT and wait it out when they start, but I think it’s the best thing to do. Let them work it out between themselves without interference from the Alpha Cat.
Well, except that they both need a serious scrub down with the hot washcloth afterwards. Azar actually enjoys it, but perhaps Sunny (who doesn’t like it at all) will start putting 2+2 together and figure out that if he stops attacking Azar then he’ll stop getting the hot washcloth treatment.
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You’d think he’d at least get tired of being peed on by his bro! 😎
It does sound like some of the fury is gone from the furry encounters! 😉
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Still furry, less fury.
Yep, that pretty much sums it up. I’m surprised poor Azar isn’t bald yet with the amount of fur he loses during each fight.
The boys got through the night again without incident, but I shut Sunny in the livingroom after his 7am brekky because I wanted to get a little extra sleep and I saw he had the crazy gleam in his eye he gets shortly before an attack.
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Today’s cat fight took place in the bathroom.
Which is not only the best place for it to take place (tiled floors instead of hardwood and no soft furnishings) but it seems that Sunny attacked Azar while he was in the litter box just after he’d had a pee, so there was nothing left for him to pee out once the fight started. Yay!
I gave them both a hot washcloth scrubdown anyhow. Azar was a wee bit pongy as I think he ended up rolling around in the litter box before escaping to a corner next to the bidet. And Sunny just has to be scrubbed down after each fight to show him there are consequences.
Anyhow, right now they are both curled up on the bed having a siesta together (soooo cute!). They do seem to be trying to sort things out. But so far it seems like about once a day Sunny goes mental and has to attack Azar. I actually think it’s Azar who’s making the difference. He’s the clever one and I think he realises it’s up to him to make Sunny feel ‘dominant’ again.
I just can’t believe my luck that the last two major ‘pee fights’ haven’t resulted in any extra laundry. *fingers crossed*
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Pingback: cat fight redux « casa az
Sheesh, who’d you piss off, az? Four, count ’em, FOUR spammers* in a row! 🙂
Must be your magnetic personality!
*based on the fact that all four comments are *identical*…
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Ha! Got ’em. Slippery slimy so-and-so’s …
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Ааану-ка ребятки голосуем!!
Признавайтесь проуазники и владельыц сайта azahar.wordpress.com ))))
ЧОТ выы буедте делать этим летом?!
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😕
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Where’s a babelfish when you need one?
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I’m afraid that babelfish didn’t help all that much …
Aaanu- kA of rebyatki we vote!! Acknowledge prouazniki and vladel’yts of site azahar.wordpress.com)))) CHOT of vyy to buyedte to make with this summer?!
Nor Google…
Aaanu-ka rebyatki voting! ! Admit prouazniki and vladelyts site azahar.wordpress.com)))) CHOT death buedte do this summer? !
Hmmm…something to do with prozac?
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Heads it’s Spam, tails it’s Salt-Reduced Diet Spam.
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I just KNEW that damn smiley was not going to work! 😛
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Um, that’s quite a fine video and song, but how does it relate to cat fights?
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I found that posting at several blogs I’ve visited
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So, spam then? Okay, I shall obliterate it…
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casa azahar 
Soooo … spent most of the late morning/early afternoon washing floors (and cats, once they’d let me near them, as they’d both got covered in pee). I thought everything was fine again but then I spooked Azar by getting too close with the mop – he panicked and ran out of the livingroom. And then again Sunny was all over him – it was awful!I mean, they sometimes play a bit rough together, but this was out-and-out viciousness. I guess they were both still feeling a nervous and since that second episode Azar has been curled up tight on the sofa and Sunny is still hiding under the duvet on the bed. Very strange.Both of them really seem out of sorts. Sunny is obviously not happy but I’m actually worried about Azar – he seems terrified, the poor thing.
I hope he gets over this soon – I’m actually nervous about leaving them alone together. Yesterday when we went out we shut Azar in the livingroom.Meanwhile, my back is still killing me and I had to miss yoga class today.
Meanwhile, the boys seem to have settled down. I’ve noticed before that they get nervous when they hear cats fighting or mating in the street. And usually Sunny gets aggressive – when Lua was alive he would usually attack her at these times, not Azar. Though never as badly as yesterday … also, it’s never lasted this long.But I found them both asleep on the bed awhile ago so I hope they are okay now.Raincoaster has since put a disclaimer on that post, accepting no responsibility for wounded pets, owners or carpeting.
But you know, what if we hadn’t been home?I really don’t get this. It’s like a switch has been flicked inside Sunny since he heard that video yesterday and he’s gone all Jekyll and Hyde on us. One minute he’s fine, next he’s turned into psycho-killer cat, next he becomes all sheepish and later he gets all submissive, pathetically grovelling to be forgiven.
Why???
Anyhow, just back from a class, a bit of shopping and tapas with Nog – locked Azar in the livingroom again while we were out. I think he actually prefers being locked in (he has his food dish in here and a water bowl,as well as a comfy sofa) so I think I’ll keep doing this until things settle down.Meanwhile, I will keep an eye on Sunny to see if he is showing any symptoms of being ill and maybe also give Maria a call.
Also, some neurotic ‘territorial’ behaviour is going on. Last night Sunny was curled up on one side of the sofa and Azar decided to get up on the sofa as well. Did he ’safely’ just jump up on the opposite side? Nooooo … he jumped up on the coffee table and stood there staring at Sunny for about 2 minutes before he made his way over to his side of the sofa.And when he decided to get up and leave he didn’t just jump off from his end … he slowly walked the length of the sofa over to where Sunny was curled up and then insolently jumped off from there!
Bedtime has also turned into an ordeal, with me and Nog trying to keep the peace while the two boys ‘find their places’ in bed. Usually Azar curls up under the duvet next to me (far side of the bed) and Sunny takes up his usual ‘guard cat’ post at the end of the bed by Nog’s feet, so he can watch the hallway from the open bedroom door.But these days I’m waking up with Sunny on my pillow and Azar ‘banished’ to some other part of the bed. Except that when I wake up Azar gets very cheeky and makes a big deal of coming up for a cuddle right under Sunny’s nose, purring like mad.So it seems like all that cat screeching sent both boys into serious territorial mode … I just hope they get over it soon.
Re-Directed Aggression Towards Other Cats
The deal is that Sunny will spend the next few days in the living room and Azar will have the run of the rest of the flat. I feel a bit badly for Sunny because I know how much he loves sleeping with us. After spending last night in the living room I brought him back into the bedroom around 7am and fell back to sleep with him in my arms (Azar was asleep at the foot of the bed). No problem.Later we got up and had coffee in bed and the two boys seemed quite calm on top of the bed together. But then they disappeared under the bed and were there for about an hour or so … and then the latest huge fight broke out.They’ve both calmed down enough to let me swab them down with a warm wet washcloth. I actually think they appreciated it because I doubt they like smelling of cat pee.And now we will follow the instructions in that article. We were getting it partially right by separating them when we weren’t at home and, more recently, at night. But we didn’t realise they need more time apart than that and that the ‘reintroduction’ needs to be very gradual and careful. Damn video! Boy that raincoaster has a lot to answer for…